CONVERSATION WITH

Rita Lira

Recorded March 7, 2025

RITA

There is a lot of experience that I've got after this video because before, it was my way to Ukraine and I left Ukraine, I think it was one month after the beginning of full scale invasion. And then I came to Kyiv or to Ukraine just for like one week or two weeks to see my family, friends, etc. But I was living in Paris, and this video, it was just before I came to Ukraine for three months. So I really like got this chance to feel what does it mean to live here in Kyiv under like rocket attack, bombing and everything else, like how people continue living. And I also experienced that, alone, because I was living alone in Kyiv, before I broke up with my partner. So it was an interesting kind of experience when I faced this. Actually, I faced like, two or three like biggest rocket attack to Kyiv. And that one that was during summertime, it was just two kilometres from my place, and it was really loud and it was, they, actually they target a child hospital, like a children’s hospital, and it was terrible. And it's really different when you read this news from Paris and when you hear this bombing and then read this news that it happened just nearby you and it's just like so close, so real and completely different feelings. So yeah, I've got other experiences after this video, so probably now I could answer this question maybe differently. What is peace process for me? Yeah.

Its really different dimensions when you think about peace and you're, for example, like me in Paris. And like, there is somethings going on around you, of course, it's like, I think there is no place in, let's say in Europe, where you can come in like, this country and ask people, everything is fine, everything is good. And probably people answer, oh, we are not really happy with our, I don't know, government or something. I mean, everywhere is going to be something that people are not so happy now, so not so agree, or they want it differently, and it's normal. But it's completely different dimensions for me when it's like, when it's war in your country, and it's constantly not peace, it's constantly not peaceful, not safe. And you're thinking about really different problems, and yeah, it's really different realities. 

I absolutely agree that, and this is my point of view, that the peace starts from inner processes and inner peace. How I can ask or think about peace in my country or, I don't know, bigger, smaller in my community, in my city, if I don't have peace inside me, like? We impact our environment and we create, I think this is my personal opinion, but I think we create it, so it starts from me, everything that's surrounding me starts from me and from my, like inner process, inner balance, and the last few months, for example, was really challenging and hard for me, and now I'm thinking a lot, and I'm really, I feel this balance inside, and now I really concentrate how to get back my, how to get grounding, how to get back to my balance inside me, and then I can give something to the world and to like, my loved one and friends and other people, and I think this is the first point from which we might start peace in more global way. 

MARIA

And do you have in your own practice, what do you do to help? What do you have that helps you?

RITA

It's going from my body. And I have my practice that I, I’ve been working on, since the war started, I mean, and in this project Moving Borders.This practice, for me, it's quite simple. I mean, there is no difficult task to dance or to find some beautiful shapes or everything. But it's about touching, and it's about grounding, like through this touching and through  feelings of your boundaries, body, like the borders, boundaries of the body. As more, I feel my body and connection with my body, more I feel balance and peace and this like inner backbone, you know, that helped me. 

I had an argument with my friend, and it was just before I was living in Paris, like night before, and he wanted to leave, like without discussion, without dialogue. And I felt that I don't know when I meet him next time, when I will meet him next time. And then I really don't want to finish it like that. I mean, our meeting and I felt how hard, like how many emotions I have. And Im also angry, and I also want to continue arguing, but at the same time, I was like, no, I need to stop it. I need to find this peace like, this with him. What can help me? And I felt like my body can help me. Like I really like, and I started to feel my body and to feel some power and energy that it gives me to go through this situation and to find this way how to contain my, these hard emotions, but at the same time to step over them to find some solution, to say that, okay, I also have hard emotions, but you're my friend. I really love you and I appreciate you. And let's step over. Let's find some way how we can negotiate, how we can deal with that. And I really, I really felt how my body helped me in this moment.

If I just deny my hard feelings, they are not going to disappear, they're going to be there, but it's, they just going to destroy me from inside. So how to manage them, because it's natural process, we all have these emotions, fear, angry, etc. We need that, for our life, we were created like that. But how we can manage that, how we can find this way, yeah, to deal with it and to stay in peace with ourselves.

I was really curious actually I mean at the beginning of full-scale invasion, and still sometimes I read some news and hear some stories and it's so hard to believe that actually it's still going on. Like um, like selection camps for example for people like how Russian soldiers are, are stealing kids and they just take them and put them somewhere in Russia and then just cut all of their connection with their parents etc and it's just like things, I mean so many stories that really hard to believe why people can be so cruel? 

There is a song from a Ukrainian group, music band that called ‘Dakh Daughters’ and they are singing about human, and they are singing like, we have everything, we have legs, arms, head, like we can run, we can jump. but why in this world so many like evil and they are trying to answer to this question during this song and it's it sounds quite funny actually this song. And they and then they ask like why there is so much evil in this world and then they answer that a person has intellect but lack of wisdom.  This answer somehow satisfied me. When we educate ourselves, when we’re coming closer to culture, to art and everything, so there is less violence, less opportunity for war or something else, I think. So this is the answer for me.  

It’s insane how people still like, yeah, they take weapon and go somewhere to kill people. But also, there is really hard decision to other people to take weapon to defend them themselves and their country. And my boyfriend, he is an artist. He's quite famous Ukrainian artist. And he went to war. And he, he was like, he got got some injury. And now he's already like a veteran and he works with veterans and integration them, like to our society. So there is a big question. And yeah, that's why like artists and people like really intelligent people, forced to take this weapon also and go and defend their country, their territories, their families. And it’s, I know that, so we have this topic and we now in conversation I can, I hope so, that I can like talk to you honestly and deeply about all of these things. Because once I had I was a speaker on conference in Timișoara it was culture capital of Europe two years ago. So then it was celebrating travel conference event, and we were talking about that, and there was some contradiction how to say, yeah, of me and German artist, when I was talking about artists in Ukraine and Kyiv about dancers and others, and I was talking that some of them, like almost all culture events now trying to gather money for army, for volunteers, for everything, because it's so, it's like the most important things now, to support people who protect us. And it was quite famous, a German artist, and she said like, how you can talk about art and artists and weapon at the same like, time? and also it's, I think it's really strong narrative in Germany now, but unfortunately this is our reality. Like we had to, and we of course don't want to, but there is no other way.

It’s appeared in my mind, when I had a conversation with my boyfriend before he became my boyfriend, it was like really our first meeting after many years that we haven't seen each other. And he asked, he was talking about this program that he's working on.  And, and I was like, what is in your mind? And he was like, I'm thinking how to stop veterans kill themselves. And I remember her how deep and how like, how it touched me so deep. So there is this narrative, also a lot of narratives around this topic.

STACE

Did you get to respond to that challenge at the time? And if you did, what was your, you know, what was your response? And if you didn't, what, what would be your response? 

RITA

First of all, I want to say that it was three of our us like three artists. And I think one of them was a guy from Palestine and and Kidou. I think he's from Palestine.  And he was he really felt that I'm like when, when she say this and she was really like she had not really respectful attitude and everything. And I really felt this attack and I was like, oh, and then he I mean, I so appreciate this, this act, he he just took microphone from my hand and he started to say some funny things to just reduce also like this tension and beats.  And he gave me a few seconds to breathe in and out, you know, also to connect to like release a beat, my emotions. And then he gave me back the microphone and I answered: That like, you know, I think in our context of this conference, I was saying that in this context of conference, I felt that this space is safe enough to talk about these things, about our reality, that is not comfortable, that is not pleasure and everything, and when we face these topics and these things. So I expected that people here were ready to talk about that, and this space was safe enough for that. So I just answered that. I still think that it was the best way not to go to this conversation but just say that, sorry but this is our reality, I thought we can talk about this honestly.

I feel that after this experience, you really want to scream and like, like when you few days ago, it was funeral of, of really talented Ukrainian dancer, Volodymyr Rakov, to be honest, he was like one of the best Ukrainian dancers, extremely talented guy. Like I know, I know a lot of generation of dancers in different like dance communities, it's not so big in Ukraine, etc. But he was one of the most talented. And he went to army and he was killed, one month ago.  He was in army, like, almost three years, he was defending our country.  And it was big funeral in the city center. And we were like, have this ceremony and then big crowds like, it was his coffin, like inside the car, and we were going through the city center and it was big crowd of dancers, other people who were following this car and with music and everything.  Like we like block, like it was like a big street that was blocked and we were like just walking in the middle of the street and I don't know, a lot of people came to say goodbye and it was, I mean, all of these people were crying and it was dancer who gave his life for our lives, and this is our reality now and this is people, this is artists who are dying now, with weapon. And they are dying as a hero but still they are dying. 

So, and after these events, when someone say how dare you are to talk about artists and weapon at the same time?  You’re like, how different our reality is like. So there is a lot of pain and sometimes it's hard, but I understand that also to have this conversation I have to stay cold and like calm. Yeah.  But I'm really happy that there is a space like people invite me or other Ukrainian artists to share and I really appreciate that. I think it's really important. So thank you for that. 

STACE

Thank you

RITA

I Think I think really a lot about physical practices and just Gathering meetings like physical meetings and even with this project of  moving borders when we were meeting somewhere in Europe, but we were, We have this opportunity to physically see each other, during it was just three days in each country and every time it was ten different dancers Ukrainian dancers,and at the beginning of the project, because I was with organizers, we were like Creating the structure together with the organizers with La briqueterie in Paris and it's done It's probably in Czech Republic and it's art a cell in Italy? 22:30so we were thinking how to organize everything and I was like, oh my god three days we not gonna produce everything, you know, I was like production production. But then I really experienced this Value of being together in one common space just just with your background, with your similar pain and experience that sometimes hard to share with people that don't have it and it's like it's not anybody’s fault, It's normal that people cannot connect without this kind of experience, but then when you meet people with your your similar pain and trauma and everything and you're just sharing the space. You're just moving a bit together, dancing. Like I was leading this practice that's about touching and it's about really like safe space and hearing each other, hearing your own body and everything. It gives so much. 

I really want to try now to find the way how to work with people in Ukraine maybe who need this practice I would love to share it maybe to travel a bit and to share my practice. I have a friend who collated some practices for children who lost their parents during the war. And he also shared how deep it was to work with them and how valuable it was for him to share something, to give them space to dance. So probably this is the answer. 

And also one of other my friends, he is a dramaturg but he now works in Red Cross in Ukraine and he provides first psychological aid to people who face like really bad things and who lost their homes or relatives or like something else and who got this heart experience. He works with them and he gives some aid. And also he shared how, for example, through body he helps people like just like in this stressful mood, he helps them to ground first of all, like to fill their body. Sometimes he shared that he gives people chewing gum, like bubble gum, because when you have this stress and fear and angry it's first like you have block here and your cheeks and everything here that's like just has this contraction, and then if you give like this kid or other adult person, this chewing gum, it helps them to release these muscles and reduce the stress level. You know, some of these things are also really simple, but it works. So it's it's a lot of, for me, like, connects to body. 

STACE

Thank you.